updated********
updated 2 /3rds rotation should read 3/4****

Thanks @smakmeharder

They are getting better, and am now doing these at the field in some form or another. Still have a long way to go. But im definetely closer now than i was when i started learning the piroflip in July.

Thought id share quickly what has worked for me. Everyone is different. My approach has been one of discipline, breaking the piroflip down into key moves, variety and repetition.

Discipline / Repetition
- I have routinely spent 20-30min most nights over the course of the last 2-3 months focusing on the piroflip and the individual breakdown moves.

Piroflip break down of moves
After reading alot of info on the web and talking to lots of people, watching the piroflips tutorials here on heligods etc, watching real piroflips at the field, i realised that the piroflip was a move i really wanted to master and that if i was going to get to piroflipping safely/reliably and with accuracy, i had to approach it gradually.

I setout to perfect each of the below moves gradually before moving onto the next (including taking that move to the field). And once i had moved onto the next i would still do a few of the previous each night before getting into the next skill to keep these skills active (this also helped me warm up each time). I have worked my way through the below (Even though i could already do some (stationary piros), i trusted the system of repetition).

My system was that i had to do 1000 repetitions ( number recommended by @smakmeharder) of each move before i could attempt at the field and also to move onto the next on the sim. I was finding that by about 300 in each i was getting it right and between 300 and 1000 it was about perfecting it and it making the move second nature. Heres how I broke it all down between July to now.

1. stationary piros (upright / inverted)
2. half piro (both starting from nose in and starting from nose out
3. breaking down the piro flip into 2 halves. First halve has me [start of move] upright tail in, piroing, flipiing over 3/4s of a rotation and continuing to the nose in inverted position [end of first half]. The second half has me [start of move] inverted nose in flipping over 3/4s of a rotation and continueing to the tail in upgright position [end of second half / start position of first half] - adapted from Burt K training video

**** The great thing about breaking the piro flip into two halves is that you can focus on each half individually and do lots of each quickly. After each half manouver do a forward flip or a backward flip and away you go again ( field or sim). Suggest you work on inverted to upright portion first as i found it easier to control heli back to upright normal orientation

4. doing each half from a starting 360degree piro (first half) or a starting inverted 360 degree piro (Second half). Focusing on finishing the piro as level as possible and correcting the piro in the last 360 degree piro.
eventually connecting these together.
5. doing a single complete piro. Gradually doing these with shorter and shorter delays between each until they are almost connected. Focussing alot on finishing flat at end of inverted and upright flips as well as making sure collective is nuetral during vertical portion of flip.
6. 2 piroflips back to back with no pirouette in between (similiar to the way @smakmeharder does these at the field) as a single move. This has forced me to learn to get timing right and to better visually identify where i am in the flip. Followed the video clip for 3am and 9pm transitions and this is helping a lot.

Where i am at now (building on the above)
7. piroflips continous with a 360 piro in the middle (As per video above). Each 5 continous piro flips counts as 1. Again aiming to get to 1000 of these. After doing 6. above , im finding adding a piro in the middle is a lot simpler. Effectively im doin 5000 individual piro flips strung together by 5000 360 piros.
8. Pirouette circles. To help improve my pirouette control between flips.
9. Mucking around with variations like trying to do the flip over 360 and other degrees instead of 270(3/4s)

I do approx 100 or so repetitions of my targetted item each night, some nights i get into a groove and just hammer out 200-300 repetitions.

To help me keep track i use an app called Android Goal Tracker to record number of each moves and to keep tab on i am progressing.
Here are some screen shots from the app.
https://flic.kr/p/Bk2SLH
https://flic.kr/p/Bk2Xme

Tracking in this manner isnt necessary as you can also go by feel. I find however that the statistical logging creates a psychological state which keeps me challenged and wanting to see the numbers increas and reach my goals. Sort of like habit creation.


Its been a slow road, but the slow but gradual progress has kept me focussed and inspired to keep going.

The key things that I realise now are that
- collective management is critical (Especially when transitioning from sim to field) to keeping the heli locked. You need to make sure that as the heli moves through the vertical portion of flip that u have 0 nuetral collective otherwise you end up travelling
- make sure you get your disc flat as possible at finishing inverted and finishing upright points. I also find that following the tail with your cyclic control helps immensely (Burt K tip - steering the heli not just stirring- mode 2).
- peg your rudder either via travel limits or dual rates to ensure u have a constant piro rate to practice from at full rudder. I had to play around with my rudder speed to get piro flips to work for me. Found it very hard at either too fast or too slow. work out what speed works for you

Most of the above is adapted from burt k piroflip training video on smaktalkrc.

The Nick Maxwell one tank tip to piroing did nothing for me and I spent probably all of July trying to practice the piro flip this way, but couldnt put the individual flips together to steer the tail. Didn't feel as though I was improving so abandoned and went back to what I did above.

Hope the above helps.

 

Well done! Keep pushing!

 

I really like the systematic approach @gonehelimad has used. This is what creates success. A little each day - every day. Anyone who wants to learn piroflips should read @gonehelimads routine and watch the piroflip tutorials...

 

I red it three times!

 

Well the piroflip is the maneuver that gets all the girls, so it's definitely worth learning. A well thought out and systematic approach to learning the mighty piroflip @gonehelimad , I like it
Simon

 

It's a very interesting read! I will have to bookmark this one for when I get further along. I'm only at inverted orientation right now.

 

Well @Beaver if you can go inverted, and turn around and return to upright your done! Lol

Stuart
Citizen #507

 

I can do it on sim. Haven't tried it for real yet.

 

The first piroflips i practiced on my own on the sim had one cyclic stick circle per 360 piro. @smakmeharder told me to add 180 degrees per flip to make it look better. That was after posting a flight in the sim challange.

So i tried and couldnt get it done. Then I saw the latest post of piro practicing with the 3 and 9 o clock starting points. That helped me very much.

Now I do two cyclic stick circles per 360 flip and it looks very cool. I never thought about slowing down the piro speed over dual rates or something not even in the sim. From the beginning on i learned to control all four stick moves together. So pulling full tail with smaller dual rates isnt actually 100% controling the heli for me.. Its kind of fixed piro rate than.

I did break down the trick in to halfs in the early beginning but didnt spend to much time on this. After hundreds of flips every day I could orientate very good and started to ignore sometimes the 3 and 9 o clock positions. So I did random piroflips. Therefore Im able now to start or stop the piro in almost every position.

I will post a video soon. Need to perfect the pitch management. For me its the hardest thing. The trick is not locked in place 100%.

An other help can be to slow down the simulation speed if your sim is able to. But i wouldent go under 65%.

Two days ago i did a piroflip at the field and noticed it as I allready have been in the middle of the trick. But I exactly knew how to bring it to the end. I dont know why I did it.. It was kind of a reflex after and other trick. - It just came so and after the piroflip my heartrate rised haha. I thought like "damn what are you doing?". Thanks to sim practice I just did it!

 

awesome stuff iggy. i too have started to do the piro flip with an extra 180 degree rotation as part of flip so end position of first half is inverted tail in. funny enough managed to do this within the first few goes. will be developing this also once i get through the rest of my stuff. look forward to the video.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

Haha cool! How does that app work?? How can it count the flips?

 

The app allows you to add items (what ever that may be) that you want to track.

You can track items that you did in a yes /no fashion for the day or by numerical recording (how many times you did any one task on that day)

At the completion of the task or day you simply open the app and press the checkin button for that task and record your number etc. ( this might be more than once on the same day)

The app also allows you to target a completion date for the task and nicely tells you what your minimum number for the day would be to meet that deadline. If you choose dynamic auto numbering, if you slip a day it will factor that into the next days minimum. ( like me you will probably exceed these minimums anyway).

Its fairly simple. Which is what you want
You dont need another reason not to do something .



Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

Yes @iggy the flip (which is actually 3/4 of a turn) and the rotation are critical to nailing consistency. The 3.00 oclock/ 9.00 oclock + 3/4 rotation makes a big difference. I can see that @gonehelimad is actually nearly doing it right - my observation from his sim flight is his keyoff points are shifting which is expected at this stage. Once you nail the key of points or can adapts and make sure that the heli turns and flips consistently you can lock in the manouver. Its great to see you guys progressing so well.

 

Spent the last day practicing putting a 180 degree piro between the first half and second half of the flip. Mick3d asked me to try it earlier yesterday when I was doing the piroflips as per my first video but they were a little messy.

Later in the arvo, Dale also suggested the same thing. Been focusing on piroing between the flips and here is where I'm at.
I think they look a lot better this way. What do you think?

Locked in from around 30second onwards

 

Well done @gonehelimad, they are looking great...

 

Try slowing down the piroflip and count the RPMs... It looks as if there are more turns on the inverted flip. just check, i could be wrong. But looking very very nice now...

 

Can I show you my piro practice in this thread? Its a short clip from today showing some piro tic tocs and piro flips.

Im practicing the real piro flip since the last Heligods practicing video was released. It really helped me as the piro flips I did before have not been right. With the piro tic tocs I started maybe 10 days ago.

The piro flips are still not locked in place. This is the hardest part for me. But time will come. Ill keep going. Let me know how it is.

Kind regards

 

very nice iggy. like that you are practicing at speed. keep going. your almost there



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Your timing of the piro to flip ratio is good! Your keying off consistently - with consistent keyoff points come predictablity with control. The collective control is very important as well. Focus on the only applying "JUST" enough collective to keep the heli stable. Really very impressed - gonehelimad and iggy all i can say is awesome...