IMO Clones Are shiz!

Discussion in 'The Pits' started by Mr Bling, Jan 25, 2015.

By Mr Bling on Jan 25, 2015 at 12:05 PM
  1. Mr Bling

    Mr Bling Active Member

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    I Like this new section! I know there is support for clones but really? they are dangerous. They break. Unless you know what you are doing you can end up in hospital. Also they are rip of other peoples hard work. They stifle ingenuity. If there were no clones, better designed helicopters would be cheaper and there would be more innovation!
     

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Discussion in 'The Pits' started by Mr Bling, Jan 25, 2015.

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    1. HungryHungryHippos

      HungryHungryHippos Well-Known Member

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      I strongly agree with you.

      Here is a original vs clones comparison.

      I have a Hirobo Freya, the design is something like 15 years old now. My Freya frame started as a MCCPM flybarred machine, got converted to FBL, then converted to gasser from nitro. I still fly it to this day. Nobody at my flying field has made any bad criticism of the Hirobo Freya. It goes to prove how an original well designed helicopter can stand the test of time.

      photo-2 copy.JPG

      Now, as pointed out in a previous thread, I bought a Hobby King 450, I think it only lasted for about 4 flights before a mechanical failure in the tail system. During this failure the clone helicopter was out of control, it was dangerous.

      Here is a picture of where my clone ended up and where clones belongs.

      photo-3 copy.JPG
       
      Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
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    2. fastr1red

      fastr1red New Member

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      I have a clone 450, got it off ebay a year ago.
      Anyway, I sneezed once when I was a bit close and the main shaft bent, fixed it and off she went, albeit a bit wobbly. Doesn't matter what you do to these things, they're weak as p!$$. So far off spec with a wide range of tolerances for the same part, every time you fly it's different.
       
    3. utrinque

      utrinque Well-Known Member

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      OK lets start with safety. In 2013 alone three fatal actidents were reported.
      - 18 months old girl spectator died in Asia (Align 700 nitro)
      - Reggie Von 41 years old RC heli pilot in Switzerland RC (Gaui X7)
      - Roman Pirozek 19 years old RC heli pilot Brooklyn NY (Align 700 electric)

      If you want more data regarding 4 more deaths type in Google: Helicopter injuries, or deaths to public or non pilots.

      Show me one lethal accident caused by clone heli!
       
      Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
    4. utrinque

      utrinque Well-Known Member

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      Mr Bling wrote: "Unless you know what you are doing you can end up in hospital."

      I could not agree more. Does it relate to clones only?

      That is why I test and desescribe my good and bad experience with Assault 700 manufactured by Gartt Model. I have four of them two stretched to 800. Hundreds Assault kits were sold since 2013. You can hate it. You can not ignore it.

      Do not compare 700 clone with 450 clone. I have great fun with both but 700 is far more reliable than 450 due to its size. There are many threads about Assault 700 and Gartt 800. Read them or build one before judging.
       
      Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
    5. utrinque

      utrinque Well-Known Member

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      Are you aware of:
      - Mikado started as a company ripping off Vario and Heim designs
      http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=29518065&postcount=6286
      - SAB copied all dimensions of tail rotor shaft design form Align

      Examples are endless... Actually there is no real innovation in modern helis. All are build around same template. Differences are minor.
       
      Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
    6. utrinque

      utrinque Well-Known Member

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      Regarding prices...

      Vbar would still cost $470 if clones were absent.

      Actually on eBay you can get clone of Vbar for $25 with free world Wide shipment and more functionality than original. Performance is the same.

      Thread on RC groups has 475 pages, 7156 posts. Mikado was unsuccesful trying to stop bar clones. Actually they were distributing software for free before clones appeared. Now they can blame themselves.
       
    7. Johnnybgoode

      Johnnybgoode Active Member

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    8. Mr Bling

      Mr Bling Active Member

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      Without clones vbars would be more expensive for sure but we dont know by how much. But with the extra money i think they would keep re-engineering to design even better gyros. If there were no clones our R+D may be and probably would be much more advanced. And the people responsible for the design would be rightfully more wealthy. I dont think mikado make enough to be capitalist gluttons.
      As for the deaths, not too many people who fly on the edge fly clones in that manner consistently. Its hard to judge.

      Copying designs by some degree is human nature, and when is something new actually really something new. Clones are a shortcut to wealth for the manufacturers, but that doesn't make it right.
       
    9. utrinque

      utrinque Well-Known Member

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      China "company" is making PROFIT selling it for $25 substract shipment cost.

      What was profit margin for Mikado selling it for $470?

      Who is ripping who?

      Maybe Mikado is ripping RC enthusiasts?
       
    10. HungryHungryHippos

      HungryHungryHippos Well-Known Member

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      If it weren't for Mikado and V-bar, the plagiarising parasites which we call clones would not exist.

      And yes they are parasites
      If it weren't for Mikado, we would still most likely be flying around with paddles on our helicopters.

      Its Mikado and V-bar that have given us the flybarless system we all love and use on our helicopters today.

      Why complain about Mikado and V-Bar that have given us what we enjoy?

      Heres a suggestion, take of the flybarless controller of your helicopter, stick on a pair of paddles, then complain.
       
    11. feral

      feral Well-Known Member

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    12. utrinque

      utrinque Well-Known Member

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      Mikado did not invent MEMS microelectromechanical sensors nor PID algorythms.

      Do not ignore:
      Futaba
      BeastX
      Tarot
      Robird
      Wookong
      Ikon
      KDS
      Align
      CY Total-G
      Skookum
      SJGD/Axiom/Turnigy
      Gyrobot
      Helicommand
      Walkera
      Gaui
      Rondo
      AC-3X
      Bavarian D
      Brain
      Spirit
       
      Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
    13. feral

      feral Well-Known Member

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      You missed Spartan
       
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    14. utrinque

      utrinque Well-Known Member

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      I missed tons of others :) Not on purpose.
       
    15. Mr Bling

      Mr Bling Active Member

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      Ahhh but mr @utrinque please understand. China is made up of rich individuals who exploit the masses. A worker in china is lucky to make the approx $1.00 per day. Now i know that manufacturers use china to make their goods to maximize profit - which again is another problem and probably the way the VBAR was exploited in the first place - BUT It doesnt make the copy of someone elses property right - the chinese company flooding the market with vbar clones has stolen the the VBAR design.
       
    16. utrinque

      utrinque Well-Known Member

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      That is why Apple has "Made in China" label on iPad iPhone etc.

      That is why China has biggest dam:


      and fastest supercomputer Milky Way:


      Their cities grow fast:


      Urbanization in the People's Republic of China increased in speed following the initiation of the reform and opening policy. By the end of 2012, the mainland of the People's Republic of China had a total urban population of 712 million or 52.6% of the total population, rising from 26% in 1990.

      In the long term, China faces increasing urbanization; according to predictions, nearly 70% of the population will live in urban areas by 2035.

      Over the next two decades China will build 20,000 to 50,000 new skyscrapers and more than 170 cities will require mass transit systems by 2025.
       
      Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
    17. utrinque

      utrinque Well-Known Member

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      Volvo is owned by Chinese-automaker Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, aka Geely.

      Fiat owns: Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Ferrari, Jeep, Lancia, Maserati, and Ram.

      Volkswagen owns: Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, and brands SEAT and Skoda.

      https://autos.yahoo.com/news/owns-car-brands-140000017.html

      How many of you work in US corporations? Tomorrow China can own them...

      "China’s holdings of U.S. debt hit an all-time high of $1.317 trillion last November but has been in decline ever since."

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2014/08/18/china-cuts-u-s-debt-holdings-again/
       
      Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
    18. HungryHungryHippos

      HungryHungryHippos Well-Known Member

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      Everyone knows that Mikado did not invent the MEMs or PID algorithms. Seriously.

      What mikado did was pioneer a reliable consumer grade flybarless system for the masses.

      They took this step.

      What mikado did was write reliable and quality algorithms for the flybarless unit. Anyone can buy a mems sensor, not everyone can use a mems sensor to make a good FBL controller.

      And its because of Mikado, you now have flybarless on a consumer scale and the rest exist.

      There is a reason why people clone the V-bar, not because its expensive, its because for a long time, it has been the best flybarless controller around.

      So, why complain and rip on Mikado vbar for ripping of rc when its them that have provided us with the rc experience we get today?
       
    19. utrinque

      utrinque Well-Known Member

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      I thought Blade did this with AS3X.

      Mikado Vbar was not for masses at $470 price tag.

      I build clones because of fun factor. I can afford any brand but big brands are highly overpriced. Pure waste of ammo.
       
      Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
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